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Soundproofing drum room on the cheap not working out
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mickyum
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Joined: Jan 06, 2014
Posts: 12
Location: Clayton

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:56 pm    Post subject: Soundproofing drum room on the cheap not working out Reply with quote

Hi there I'm hoping someone in acoustic engineering or experience in soundproofing can help.

Also sorry for the long post just giving as much detail as possible.

I have been building a rather flimsy room-in-a-room out in my garage.

Funds are limited, space moreso. The garage has concrete slab, roller door at one end, one side and back end timber frame and weatherboards (one with a small window) and other side is a brick party wall adjoining neighbouring garage. Ceiling is timber frame and plaster sheet. Starting space was around 2.7w x 3.6l x 2.4h - about 2/3rds of the garage as I need a bit of space for storage room.

Inside I started by stuffing in some old insulation and sheeting the inside of two timber walls with plasterboard of varying thicknesses up to 16mm (all at the cost of a slab of beer!) in fact the wall at back end has two layers making it close to 30mm. On the concrete slab I lay down timber battens on which I put beads of silicon (allowing it to cure) prior to laying 16mm particle boards.

I then made up wall frames but as I want to maximise space, turned the studs so the frames are only 45mm thick (except the wall through to storeroom which is standard 90mm.) I also left out noggins. Plaster sheets, some of it being 16mm soundchek, were fixed to both sides of three frames (the two that are inside the timber walls and one that is an internal wall to go through to store room) and stood them up leaving about 20mm gap to the outside walls. The frame next to brick wall is only sheeted on the room side but still insulated.

In the wall frames I used 90mm HD acoustic batts. Whilst realising their effectiveness would be reduced I tore them into half thickness for the 45mm frames so as not to squash them.

The ceiling was divided into three sections by a couple of beams to reduce span distance so I could turn the ceiling battens on their face and save a little bit more space. The ceiling frame is not touching the original ceiling but the insulation is. More plaster here too.

The room has two entrances one to outside which has a solid 40mm MDF door on internal frame and second door on external frame but its not solid. The entrance through to storeroom also has a single solid MDF door. I have been using offcuts of carpet to act as door stops and seal the gap around doors.

At this stage I have screwed a sheet of particle board to cover the window opening of internal frame but eventually will build a second window to fit.

The floor now has underlay and carpet but nothing on walls yet.

I tested it out this afternoon playing my drums and much to my dismay my wife and kids reported that they could still hear me loud and clear from inside the house. Admittedly our house is old with poor insulation so we hear pretty much everything anyway. I checked for myself by playing some music at high volume and closing up the room and confirmed that although there is some noticeable attenuation it is far from what I had hoped. I can also still hear outside sound entering the room.

Are the walls too flexible? I get the feeling I have just built a gigantic speakerbox! Would pulling off the weatherboards and bricking up the outside help?

Does treating the inside surfaces help (egg cartons, convoluted foam or carpet) or is that purely for controlling sound inside the room?

Or should I just go out and buy an electronic kit...?
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mr fabulous
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Joined: Mar 02, 2009
Posts: 1433
Location: heathmont

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mate
not having seen the room, I have a couple of points:

1. all wall cladding (ie plasterboard etc) should not be screwed hard up against the frame. I have seen rubber spacers used for sound rooms, so that the frame does not vibrate with the walls.

2. the room must be sealed. any opening/gap/ etc will allow sound to escape

3. doors; have you ever noticed in rehearsal studios that they internal and external doors?. and in many cases you still get sound escaping out

you basically need an inert room and anything which prevents resonance and also sound escaping will improve the sound insulation. however this will also be at odds with getting air into the room.

I would suggest tacking the doors/openings and walls first and see what you can do to improve the sound attenuation.
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Redlich
Rehearsing
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Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Posts: 494

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey mate,

I'm not an acoustic engineer, but work with commercial doors and door frames, and often provide doors for use in acoustic situations. Here's my advice:

All of the insulation/cladding work you've done is pretty much useless if there are gaps around the room where sound can escape.

Any free space that sound can escape from it will, so make sure all areas are sealed up.

In regards to the doors, acoustic doors can be extremely expensive, however, if you simply use solid core doors (as opposed to hollow core/semi solid) with the appropriate seals, then you will substantially improve your predicament without spending too much money.

I can't really offer anything in the way of sealing anything other than the doors but here is what i suggest door wise:

If you have any hollow doors make sure to switch them for solid core doors. They don't cost too much but at least the sound won't escape through the door itself.

Sound will have a lot of opportunity to escape in the gaps around the door, so make sure to fit seals around the frame. My suggestion is a Raven RP120 "Batwing" seal. These are quite cheap and easy fit. In regards to under the door, I suggest a surface mounted Raven RP8 drop down seal. Also cheap and easy to fit. Make sure to get the surface mounted one as if you get the one that slips up in to the door you'll have to rout a groove in the bottom to fit the seal.

Finally, the most difficult part is the door frame. If you have a timber frame then ignore this. If you have a metal frame, check by knocking it to see if it's hollow. If it is, then a lot of sound will travel through the empty space at the back of the frame. If that's the case, then if you have the ability to open up a space above the frame, you can pour in a concrete mix which will fill the space at the back of the frame and prevent any sound getting through. This is an extremely messy job and probably pretty difficult too, but it will help if you're able to do it.

I hope this helps.
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mickyum
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Joined: Jan 06, 2014
Posts: 12
Location: Clayton

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips. Very Happy

Being a lazy bugger I hadn't done any basecoat on the plaster joins so I'll get onto that and hopefully hear an improvement as there are still a lot of small gaps.

As for screwing the plasterboard what I tried was to put little mounds of silicon approximately 10mm thick on the studs and let them go off before screwing on the sheets. Only problem I found was if I didn't get the screw in exactly over the silicon mound the screw would pull through the paper layer and crack the plaster as it had nothing behind it. Probably should have taken my time with this stage Embarassed .

I do have two doors on one entrance but the original outside door isn't solid and its on a sliding track which doesn't seal up all that good so I'll look at replacing it with a solid one and hang it on hinges. I've now fitted proper stops around the whole door jamb for the other two doors on the internal frame which has already made a difference and I'll look at those Raven products to completely seal them off.
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helvigrosen
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Joined: Oct 27, 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the more affordable ways to soundproof a room or really a space of any size is to use noise barriers like these. They can be a quick solution when it comes to reducing noise. You can put them up quickly, and this doesn't require much additional work besides assembling a simple metal frame and then attaching the barriers to it. Their industrial grade quality will ensure a very good soundproofing.
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GAM
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Joined: Feb 23, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soundproofing and Acoustic treatment are two different process. The best way to soundproof is to have a room within a room. The floor should be floating and mounted on rubber stands. The walls should have two frames; the exterior wall (existing building) and the inner wall The studs to join the two frames should be staggered to minimize wave transfer. The ceiling should be ok unless it's a flat roof. All of these things though are structural and it's pretty hard (and expensive) to retrofit a room to be soundproof. Acoustic treatment, such as foams, and insulation don't do anything for sound "proofing" but do control the frequency response of the room. Egg cartons do very little. At most they absorb and diffuse high frequencies. There use as sound proofing is a myth. Things like bradford soundscreen insulation are marketed as sound proofing, but they only absorb certain frequency ranges; such as those the human ear picks up really well. They are good at controlling RT60 and you can make reasonable bass traps with it, but this is all addressing the tonal characteristics of the room rather than sound proofing. This is important because the first thing a lot of people do is mount a whole bunch of insulation panels in order to "soundproof", but then find they suck the life out of the room and it sounds too dark and muddy.

Here's some quick and dirty wave theory for you. Low frequencies behave like liquid. High frequencies behave like light. Low frequencies see a wall and go straight through it and reflect a little. High frequencies will see the wall and bounce back. Sound will propagate at any gap, meaning no matter where the original sound source is, it will appear to be coming from the gap.
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GAGA
Gig Master
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Joined: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 2204

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GAM wrote:
Soundproofing and Acoustic treatment are two different process. The best way to soundproof is to have a room within a room. The floor should be floating and mounted on rubber stands. The walls should have two frames; the exterior wall (existing building) and the inner wall The studs to join the two frames should be staggered to minimize wave transfer. The ceiling should be ok unless it's a flat roof. All of these things though are structural and it's pretty hard (and expensive) to retrofit a room to be soundproof. Acoustic treatment, such as foams, and insulation don't do anything for sound "proofing" but do control the frequency response of the room. Egg cartons do very little. At most they absorb and diffuse high frequencies. There use as sound proofing is a myth. Things like bradford soundscreen insulation are marketed as sound proofing, but they only absorb certain frequency ranges; such as those the human ear picks up really well. They are good at controlling RT60 and you can make reasonable bass traps with it, but this is all addressing the tonal characteristics of the room rather than sound proofing. This is important because the first thing a lot of people do is mount a whole bunch of insulation panels in order to "soundproof", but then find they suck the life out of the room and it sounds too dark and muddy.

Here's some quick and dirty wave theory for you. Low frequencies behave like liquid. High frequencies behave like light. Low frequencies see a wall and go straight through it and reflect a little. High frequencies will see the wall and bounce back. Sound will propagate at any gap, meaning no matter where the original sound source is, it will appear to be coming from the gap.


Great advice and info!
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gronk
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Joined: Jun 30, 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really want to get into it, try http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php
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mickyum
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Joined: Jan 06, 2014
Posts: 12
Location: Clayton

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gronk wrote:
If you really want to get into it, try http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php


Awesome link bud!!

And so I've just found some info from a thread there that has confirmed that I've completely ballsed up!! Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Too many "leafs" (mine has four) and the air gap is too small. I'm hoping I can strip off the weatherboards and re-build from the outside without disturbing the room itself.

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing101/triple-leaf-effect/
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BigLabowskie
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buy a cheap Elec' kit&some headphones&save the $$ for Beer!! Smile

or play th kit..& buy the neighbours Beers& headphones??



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